Friday, June 14, 1996

Guest:  Judy Pinalto

(Spelling of proper names in this transcript is phonetic and may be in error, ed.)

Transcript from audio tape by Chey Simonton

HF: My guest for the first hour of the show is Judy Pinalto.  She resides in Scottsdale, Arizona with her husband, Bill, and two grown children, Cindy and Bill.  Bill and Judy have for many years been active in biblically based resource ministries for home-educating families. They have also successfully instructed their children at home.  Judy, welcome to the show.

JP: Thank you.  It's nice to be here today.

HF: We're going to talk about an interesting subject today, Unholy Hands on the Bible.  Judy, what is modernism?

JP: Modernism is the term that has been used for the very liberal swing in Christianity here in the twentieth century.  What we will find as we go through this hour is that we can link this back to guests you have had before, I understand you have a very knowledgeable listenership on this issue of the Bible conspiracy.  The modernists, I believe, are just another out-shoot of that Westcott and Hort group at the end of the 1800s who were looking to produce a new Bible, a new God, a new theology.  I have a quote here to share with you in just a few minutes, whenever you want to get started.

HF: What are the New Evangelicals?

JP: The New Evangelicals were supposed to the middle-of-the-roaders. Probably the best descriptive word for them is "the compromisers" because what they attempted to do in the 1940s was to bridge the gap between traditional fundamentalist Christianity and liberal modernism. They were going to be the middle-of-the-roaders and try to find a way to bring the two back together.  Of course, as we know from the scriptures, whenever someone attempts to compromise, the only thing that happens is that you start going down the chutes.  The key theological doctrine they threw into the toilet in order to put the New Evangelical movement together was God's doctrine on separation, that God's people were not to be unequally yoked with the world.  That is the key thing that really describes the New Evangey and that whole gang back in the 1800s and Annie Besant and her masonic ties, all this liberalism started working it's way through these corrupt Bible versions which are based on corrupt manuscripts.

I know your listeners already know about these (corrupt Bible versions, ed) that are steeped in gnosticism.  So, it should come as no surprise when at the turn of the century here in America, this stuff's coming over here.  In 1924 the mouthpiece for the modernists, before I explain the New Evangelicals, there was a magazine called CHRISTIAN CENTURY.  In the January 2, 1924 issue said, and  this is really a telling theme for this hour, "Christianity, according to fundamentalism, is one religion. Christianity according to modernism is another religion.  Which is the true religion is the question that is to be settled in all probability by our generation for future generations.   There is a clash here as profound and as grim as between Christianity and Confucianism.  Amiable words cannot hide these differences.  Blessed be the Tie may be sung until doomsday, but it cannot bind these worlds together."

So, the God of the fundamentalist is one God and the God of the modernist is another.  The Bible of fundamentalism is one Bible, the Bible of the modernism is another.  The church, the kingdom, the consummation of all things...these are one thing to the fundamentalists and another thing to the modernists.

Now comes along Dr. Ockenga in the late 1940s.  He tells in his own words who and what this new social gospel is going to entail.  He tells us that it has six components.

First, there is the National Association of Evangelicals, the NAE as we know them today, which is going to provide the articulation for the movement.

Second, there is the World Evangelical Fellowship.

Third, there is the new apostolic literature stating this point of view which is now flowing from the presses of great publishers like MacMillan and Harpers.

Fourth, there is the existence of Fuller Theological Seminary.  (They built their own seminary for this whole thing!)

Fifth, there is the establishment of the magazine, CHRISTIANITY TODAY.

Sixth, there is the appearance of an evangelist, and this is their mouthpiece, Billy Graham, who on the mass level is the spokesman on the convictions and the ideals of the New Evangelicalism.

HF: Okay, Judy, that's quite a lot to digest.


HF: Our guest is Judy Pinalto and we're talking about apostasy in the modern Christian church.  Judy, you have named the main mouthpiece for the New Evangelicals as Billy Graham.  Who have been the popularizers of New Evangelicalism?

JP: Oh, my goodness!  There are so many of them that it would take a whole hour just to name them all so I'll name just a couple to get us started today.  The whole idea from my point of view is to get people thinking.  I know your listeners are very familiar with many topics on the coming One World Global System.  I also know that you've covered the government arm and the economic system that's coming and I'm sure you've gotten into the religious system that is coming.  This is really about the religious system that is coming.  We've got this really radical position that is pushing away from has been biblical Christianity throughout the centuries coming into these Last Days of the church age.  I believe that Westcott and Hort were really kicking off these Last Days with beginning to tamper with the Bible.  So, there was this wide liberal modernism and now we've got this backlash, this so-called middle-of-the-road group that is going to try to somehow to bring peace and order through compromise.

Billy Graham starts off as their number one mouthpiece.  Think of some of the people that he helped popularize, people like Robert Schuller. He admitted that on the 1000th anniversary of the Hour of Power, that back in 1969 he was the one who talked Robert Schuller into starting that program.  Of course, he helped found CHRISTIANITY TODAY.  The editor emeritus of that is Dr. Harold Linzell who wrote that book, THE BATTLE FOR THE BIBLE, with the foreword by the father of this movement, Dr. Ockenga.  Everybody knows about the Billy Graham Crusades, but, not everybody understands that as the years went by and Dr. Graham found himself more and more having to be in this compromise position, that he started bringing Catholic counselors into the Crusades so that if a person came up who was of the Catholic faith, for example myself.

I am delivered out of the Catholic faith and I now profess  a belief in Jesus Christ as my lord and savior.  I would not be given over to a Bible believing counselor.  There would be Catholic counselors right there to make sure that I stayed in the faith and I would be ushered over to them to make sure that Billy Graham was not proselytizing against the Catholic Church.  So, these compromises began.  Then Billy Graham was very instrumental (he gave $10,000.00) in starting up the International Council on Biblical Inerrancy, which we'll talk about a little bit later.

Now, you have got Harold Linzell with this really popular magazine, CHRISTIANITY TODAY, and we learn that  Harold Linzell was on the New King James Version Committee.  He also was a part of the International Council on Biblical Inerrancy.  These people who are involved in the social gospel are all sitting on these Bible committees.

Who could forget Bill Bright who went to Fuller Theological Seminary, their instrument for bringing on this New Evangelicalism in the United States.  He left before he graduated and he founded Campus Crusade. Guess what?  Here's Bill Bright now out there doing all this social gospel routine and sitting on the International Council for Biblical Inerrancy.  The next thing you know, he's also on the New King James Version Committee!  And, as you've probably already told your listeners, he's this year's award winner of the Templeton Award, the million dollar New Age award that Chuck Colson got last year, for his "Humanism"!

So, these are the kinds of guys you are finding, the big speakers out there on the circuit, who have huge multi-million dollar ministries, and are involved in this compromising position; in our politics, in our everyday life, and unbeknownst to most people, they're also in the background on the modern Bible committees and turning out new Bible versions.

HF: Wow, that's quite something!  Certainly, many of us have heard of all of these people.  I'm interested in the political movement that is associated with New Evangelicalism.  Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson... will you talk to us about them?

JP: That's a very interesting side.  You've got a very interesting person in the background and maybe you've talked about him before, Paul Weyrich.  Paul Weyrich is a Roman Catholic and he started the Heritage Foundation.  He is one of the moneybrokers or powerbrokers through tainted money, the Rockefeller money system, the New World Order gang. He started the Heritage Foundation, and through that he also began another group called The Free Congress Foundation.  In this Free Congress Foundation, this Catholic (Weyrich) is appealing to Protestant preachers to take back the American culture to traditional values, which is really a kick!  The Moonies, in the meantime, who are also out there being big money/power brokers and associating in the same circle as Weyrich, are also working on reclaiming the culture!

(Commercial Break)

HF: Paul Weyrich, many of us have heard of him.  He did found the Heritage Foundation.  I remember getting literature from the Free Congress Foundation.  He is a Roman Catholic and he's calling on Protestant ministers for a Christianizing of the culture.  An ecumenical move!

JP: That's right!  Here comes the ecumenical movement.  So, the next thing we see is the emergence of men; Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson start climbing on the bandwagon!  I've got an article in front of me from Sunday, July 13, 1986 entitled "Religious Coalition Seeks to Establish Biblical Justice".  This was in the NEWS & OBSERVER  from Raleigh, North Carolina.  Here's where it tells about this big evangelical meeting.  I've got all the paperwork on it, including the things they had to sign, things they claimed they would all believe together.  This is the Coalition on Revival, today we know them as their acronym, COR.  The big promoters of this movement, in the article, are Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

It says right here in the article, "Although primarily evangelical, it includes activists from other denominations including Roman Catholics".

Then among those listed in leadership in this effort are Dr. D. James Kennedy, Dr. Tim LaHaye, Dr. Rushdoony of Chalcedon, Dr. Jack Van Impe, Dr. Harold Linzell . (remember, he's the editor of CHRISTIANITY TODAY), and Dr. Adrian Rogers the President of the Southern Baptist Convention,  then, of course, the Director of COR and their magazine CROSSWINDS, Jay Grimstead.  Some of these names your listeners need to remember because in a little while when we get back to the modern Bible versions, you're going to hear these names pop up again on the translating and overview committees.

HF: We're moving towards a point where I want to ask a question.  In your opinion, what should be the role of biblically-based Christianity today in America?  Should we be utterly unconcerned with the political realm and if it's going to be ungodly let God judge it and for us to be separate from that?  I don't want to be associated with men like Paul Weyrich in any way, and yet I am concerned about what is happening in this nation politically.  So, where am I to be as a Bible believing person?  Where should I be politically?

JP: I think that where every Christian has to align themselves is just exactly where God says we have to be in the Bible.  I know I share your concern and it's something that every Christian who lives in America, who truly loves God, who grew up loving this country has trouble with it.

God says, "Wherefore, come out from among them and be ye separate." in Corinthians II, 6:17-18, and, "touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you and will be a father unto you and ye shall be my sons and daughters saith the Lord Almighty."  And He goes on to say in John II, 10-11, "If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither biddeth him Godspeed, for he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds."

This is where the social gospel gang from the New Evangelicals flat out said they reject God's command to be ye separate, and went into the social arena to try to change the culture, and God forbid us to do it this way!  They openly admitted they were going to do something that God said not to do, and they don't care.  I think that's the problem with this movement we've got today; the Reconstructionists, the Dominion theology gang, and all of these people who are taking turf for Jesus. It's not biblical.  Of course, we care about our country.  Of course, we want to stand for righteousness.  But, that and fifty cents will get you a cup of coffee if you don't do it the way God says.  We don't get to make up the rules on how we go about standing for righteousness.  That's the problem.

HF: Okay, again, this is something that we wrestle with.

JP: Sure we do.  If I wasn't trying to stand up and give a witness and say, 'Come back to Jesus Christ', or if you have never been, 'Come, there is a better way.  This is all coming to an end and the world will wax worse.'  The Dominionists can stand there till the cows come home and say that we can bring in the millenium without the return of Jesus Christ; but, it flies in the face of the prophetic scriptures!

HF: Yes, indeed it does.

 (Commercial Break)

HF: We are talking with Judy Pinalto about "Unholy Hands on the Bible."  Having built this foundation, Judy, will you go to the counterfeit Bibles and the men who sat on these committees and talk on this topic, please?

JP  The big problem with these counterfeit Bibles is not only the expunging of verses but the altering of verses.  If you take a look at the backbone of this political movement, this Reconstructionist social gospel; they use from the modern NIV and the New American Standard, out of Matthew 28, they have altered the great commission.  This is where, I think, one of the great delusion, the great deception, has come in.  In the modern versions, the corrupt versions, it says that the great commission is to, "Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations."  This is the verse that they use to justify taking turf.

In the King James Bible, the correct translation of that verse is, "Go ye, therefore, and teach all nations."

In other words, the great commission was to preach the gospel; it wasn't to take numbers, it wasn't to take disciples, it wasn't to take the nations, take turf.  That is how they have used the modern versions to corrupt the doctrine and to create this heretical position that is going on today.  So, on these Bible Committees are men who have other agendas.

One of the councils that is worth a whole program in itself is the Council For National Policy, the CNP.

HF: Go for it!

JP: Maybe you've had some people on before who've talked about this group.

HF: Yes.

JP: I'm looking right now at the 1988 list which hasn't changed tremendously today.  On this list which is supposed to be the Religious Right and the conservatives who have come together to direct policy.  By the way, they will tell you that although it's a foundation, and under the Freedom of Information Act you can get their "stuff", if you get in touch with one of these people, they think they're a secret group and no one is supposed to know about them!  (chuckle).

Council For National Policy (CNP)

As you look through the old 1988 directory which gives a list of the credits of each member sitting on this committee, (this is supposed to be the Religious Right, the good guys), this is World Enterprise Zones, this is America 2000, this is the Global Village!

We've got members of UNESCO, the World Business Council, the United States Dept. of Education, the Urban League, the Heritage Foundation, people from the Hudson Institute who are very much a part of America 2000.

You've got folks from the Soviet-American Agreement in the 1980s, Paul Weyrich and his second in command, Ed Feulner are sitting on this committee!

The YMCA, the Chamber of Commerce, Moonie front organizations.  J. Peter Grace, this guy is not only CFR back in 1988 when he sat on this thing, he also is a major Roman Catholic, we're talking Knights of Malta-Secret Society-Roman Catholic.  Would you believe this guy was Pat Robertson's first boss out of school?

We've got Catholic organizations, we've got Mormons, we've got someone since fired out of government life, John Sununu.

We've got the 21st Century Group and Coalition of Revival signers sitting on this thing along with Bill Bright who has been on this International Council on Biblical Inerrancy, the New King James Committee and the 1996 Templeton Award winner.

You've got James Dobson who sat on the New King James Committee, Jerry Falwell who sat on the New King James Committee, Dr. Ben Hayden who sat on the New King James Committee; Dr. James Kennedy who was on the (ICBI) the International Council for Biblical Inerrancy and the New King James Version Committee. You've got Tim LaHaye who sat on the New King James Committee.

You've got Chris Moore who is the vice president of Thomas Nelson Publishers that's put out every bible version that's on the market! And Sam Moore, the executive officer and president of Thomas Nelson who has put out every bible version on the market.

We've got Pat Robertson sitting on this thing and Guy Sanders, the former president of Gideons.

That's just back in 1988 and we can add a few more guys to that today!
Then on the COR (Coalition on Revival) we've got:

Coalition on Revival

Dr. Larry Walter who sat on the NIV and New American Standards committee.

Dr. Gleason Archer who sat on everything!  He's a professor of Old Testament at Trinity Seminary.  Dr. Henry Morris from the Institute of Creation Research who is also a member of COR Dr. Lloyd John Ogilvie, who is a very interesting person.  This fellow we can tie to Renovare!   Have you heard of that movement?


Renovare is a movement that has come about in recent years.  It is going back to early Christian mysticism.  And this group is going from church to church doing these little meditation retreats and the group of guys who have gotten into this esoteric, pagan, mysticism include:

Ogilvie who sat on the New King James Committee,
Jack Hayford,
David Hubbard, president of Fuller Theological Seminary,
Tony Campolo,
J.I. Packer,
John Wimber,
David and Karen Maines,
C. Peter Wagner, just to mention a few.

I'm sure those names ring some bells with your listeners.

HF: Oh, yes they do!

JP: You betcha!  Well, back to the New King James Committee we're sitting with:

Rev. Luis Palau and
Dr. Earl Rademacher,
Dr. Adrian Rogers.  Remember, he's part of COR, getting that whole thing off the ground.  He's also the head of the Southern Baptist Convention.

And the list just goes on and on.  Of course, needless to say, Dr. Bill Bright, our Templeton Award-winner.

HF: The Templeton Award, that's from John Templeton, is it not?

JP: Yes.

HF: Judy, during the break I looked up in both King James and the NASB Matthew 28:19, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."

In order to make a disciple, one must teach.  A disciple is a student. Okay?  I don't see a big problem with that verse.  I do see the problem where they draw the conclusion that they have to take turf.

JP: See, that's it!  It's how they have chosen to define it because the words "make disciples" is not as specific as teach.  It gives you the leeway to start adding to or taking from the Word of God.  And that's what has happened.

HF: Yes, I definitely see that whole Dominion theology is a real serious problem, post millenialism.  They're saying they're going to make the world perfect for Christ and then Jesus will return to this wonderful peace-ridden earth where everybody's going to be a Christian, or most nearly everybody, and then they'll set up a Kingdom.  This, to me, seem so preposterous!  I've read a lot of the writings of Gary North, David Chilton, R.J. Rushdoony, and I don't know where these guys are coming from.

JP: It really is interesting because they have to flat out ignore history in order to get to where they are.  There's no other way they can get to this conclusion,  and we're talking about some men with very high IQs.  They are not dummies!

HF: Well, actually, the Reconstruction movement is filled with the intellectuals.  They add a lot of credence to the Charismatics who joined ranks with them.

JP: Absolutely!  This is just what the Bible says, this is the Sadducees and the Pharisees of Jesus' time.  These guys are so puffed up with their knowledge that they're deceived now, just flat out deceived. Their logic and reasoning just defies truth!  They have to absolutely ignore facts to get where they're going!

What's so interesting is that they're not only sitting on the Bible committees, they're in our politics, they're in our everyday social lives.  It's just like a web!  They're in every aspect of our lives, controlling, directing, shaping.

I didn't go looking for these fellows.  My background is education research which is where I've been for many, many years.  Of course, I've had a radio program now for the past few years and have really had a tremendous base to learn a lot more, as you can attest to as a program host.  What I found was that when we got into this America 2000 stuff and we started to figure out what was going on and tried to warn the Christian community, we started getting opposition. 

I know I did here in my home state.  I found the opposition was coming from that called itself the Religious Right.  I called my friends around the country and sure enough, that's where they were finding the same opposition coming from.  So, I wanted to find out who were the guys who were trying to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about and things like Vouchers and Charter Schools are wonderful things and we all ought to be doing it!  That's what put me on the trail to find out who these fellows were.

What's amazing to me, and what I'd like to go into at the end of this program is that one of the things that has to happen in this ominous religious system that goes with this One World Government is somehow, the beast has to get everyone to bow down and worship him.  An amazing feat, when you stop and think about it.  Where do you go to do this?  I'm sure you've had lots of guests who've said the best place to go is to go to the schools.  Start with children with blank slates and build from there.


Out of chaos, synthesis.  Hegelism.  I know your listeners have all heard this.  They've destroyed the school system and now they're trying to put it back together and they're rebuilding it for this Global Village.  One of the things they now want to put back in the school is Values and Virtues.  I just recently saw the big foundation  production called, "Common Ground".  This is the politically correct term for putting values back into school for the kids.  The minute I saw it, it was like some of my research just clicked in my head. 

This is the "wisdom of the Greeks" talked about in the Book of Acts.  This is pure and blatant gnosticism!  It has an interesting twist because it tries to build off the Founding Fathers.  But, I have this huge file on freemasonry and the vocabulary they are using to talk about the founding fathers of America, and do some real twists in these documents, is the vocabulary the Masons use! So, we look at this stuff and what do we see, gnosticism, secret societies, wisdom of the Greeks, Masons....

Let's go back to the corrupt manuscripts that came out of Egypt.  The scholars will attest that in the first three centuries of the early church nothing was coming out of Egypt except gnosticism.  No New Testament book has ever been traced to anyplace in Egypt.  They came from Asia Minor, the area that is now called the Byzantine text area.  Nothing came out of Egypt but this nutty gnosticism!  Okay, we know that Bishop Demetrius in the 3rd Century tried unsuccessfully to stop it.  He had to import manuscripts.

Why?  Because what was there was corrupt!  Why?  Because this was the stuff that became the earliest, oldest and best nonsense that they've been pawning off as the reasons behind the modern Bible.  But, through the years, the core thing that researchers have found that  links all these things, these secret societies is that same old gnosticism.  We can track it all the way to the Tower of Babel and right back to the third chapter of Genesis.  Gnosticism is the belief that man can be as God.  That God is in everything!  Now, here comes  "Common Ground" and it is blatant gnosticism that they want to put into the schools and teach to the children.  They want to teach the children that they can be as gods.  Well, hey, here's the lie! 

Here's the value system!  Here's the religious system needed for this last days One World Government!   What so interesting about it is if you go to the United Nations Charter and all of their treaties on education, they start using the word "virtues".  Again, this is a term from the Greek philosophers.  And what a surprise,  who comes out  with a book, THE BOOK OF VIRTUES?  Bill Bennett, a Roman Catholic, educated by the Jesuits.  Who does he help run for office in Virginia?  Michael Farris, president of Home School Legal Defense Fund.  What do these two guys have in common?  Would you believe these guys are both graduates of Jesuit universities?  Now, again, I was raised Roman Catholic and the biggest laugh I would have thought of as a kid would have been for a Baptist kid to tell me that he was at a Catholic institution getting a degree!

(Commercial Break)

HF: My guest is Judy Pinalto and we're talking about some very interesting things. Judy, let's take one or two phone calls and then wrap it up.  We have about four minutes.  Hello caller.

Caller: I would equate this to Dave Hunt's, "SEDUCTION OF CHRISTIANITY" a few years ago.  Do you have this in a book documenting everything?

JP: No, actually, I was talked into coming out a little bit ahead here. I'm putting it all together right now as a matter of fact.

Caller: Well, I'll sure be looking for it!

JP: Thank you.  Our radio ministry does have a catalog, and the Lord willing, when we get it done, we'll make it available in the catalog.

Caller: And you'll let us know how to get this information?

JP: If it's alright with Henry, I certainly will.

Caller: You sound like you've got all your ducks in order, so Godspeed, and we'll see you in a year!

HF: Judy, do you want to finish up now?

Williamsburg Charter

JP: Yes, I got into this "Common Ground" and it was pure gnosticism so I looked to see who were the masterminds behind this stuff, and they say it is the people who put together the Williamsburg Charter.  The Williamsburg Charter, as some may know, is a document the Religious Right was palming a few years ago, trying to get this into the schools saying these are the values we want to send to the kids.  It's a Who's Who list (like the CNP) of the "Left" of the Left and supposedly the "Right" of the Right.  The Left of the Left, in my opinion, are People for the American Way.  They signed onto this thing along with Dr. Adrian Rogers and other CNP folks.  It's a Who's Who of the most unlikely bedfellows!

Alright, this document pushing gnosticism with language from Masonry got me thinking.  Again, this is just speculation, just for some fun thinking because I can't prove it and I don't know anybody who can.  You know the old Holy Grail legends?  Where they talk about the deity of Christ, that Christ was not God, that there is some chalice hidden someplace that either has his blood in it or, maybe, the temple documents, the temple treasures including the bloodlines of the Jewish tribes.  Hitler tore up Europe looking for this thing!  The legends of the Holy Grail are heavily tied to the secret societies, the gnostic belief systems.

There are two major things we know are downgraded in the modern versions (of the Bible); the deity of Christ and the blood atonement.  If all these guys, whether they know it or not, are hooked into a secret movement (I think some of them know, but a lot of them probably don't) it makes so much sense to me that the reason for the downgrading of the deity of Christ and the blood atonement would have to happen if we're pushing for this gnosticism, being manipulated through the secret societies and their gnostic beliefs which is what really captured the world, became the Baal worship of the Old Testament, the wisdom of the Greeks in the New Testament.  Satan has used this tool right through history to go after God's place to try to steal it, which we know he cannot do.  But, wouldn't it be interesting to see if, in fact, someday we find out that this gnostic secret society system has been behind the Religious Right, or the people who profess to be; some knowing and some deceived.  That ought to be interesting to find out.

HF: Judy, we're just about out of time.  Do you have a radio ministry now of your own?

JP: Yes, it's One-On-One Radio Ministry and your listeners can contact us for a catalog at P.O. Box 13445, Scottsdale, AZ  85267.  Again, we don't charge anything.  We operate off freewill donations.

HF: Fantastic, Judy!  I really enjoyed the hour.  You put a lot out a lot of information.  When you do have a book, let us know and I'll tell my audience all about it.

JP: Thank you for the opportunity to share the word of God. God Bless you.

July 24, 1996

Judy Pinalto moved from her Scottsdale, Arizona location in mid-July, 1996.  She is relocating to  Oregon.  This transcript was done from an audio tape provided by Kelleigh Nelson. Any errors or omissions are fully my responsibility.

God Bless,
Chey Simonton

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